RAH! Podcast Episode Transcript Now Available: Wildcard

The transcript is now available for our very special WILDCARD episode of the RAH! Podcast from the Arts and Humanities Faculty at Manchester Metropolitan University. Read while you listen!

This episode is a bit different to our usual episodes - as it features you, our listeners! Recorded at our launch event in April 2019, this episode covers a range of topics such as: PhD study, climate change, data analysis, LGBT politics, Peterloo, safe spaces, dogs and the Metrolink.

Read along while you listen! Find the full episode transcript below.

Disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the RAH! Podcast belong solely to the speaker, and are not necessarily reflective of the views of Manchester Metropolitan University, or the speaker's employer, organization, committee or other group or individual.

RAH! Podcast Episode Transcript: Wildcard

RAH! Opening Jingle 
 
Martin Kratz: Welcome to the Rah! podcast. My name is Martin Kratz, and it’s a wildcard special. As I am here in the studio, the podcast is being launched upstairs. But I didn't get to join the party. I'm going to be here hosting a number of guests, I don't know who yet, in five-minute intervals, we're going to keep changing people around. So, I don't know what's going to happen. The theme is the unpredictable for obvious reasons. The guests might also bring some surprise topics along for us to talk about if we run out of things to say. Overall, we're going to focus on the theme of the unpredictable and as I do this, I’m going to make a bit of noise rustling this paper but that's okay because I think there will be quite a lot of noise, door slamming people quickly adjusting to having the headphones on their heads and getting used to the mic. So it's going to be a bit rough and ready. But I think that's entirely in keeping with the topic. I can't wait to get started. 
 
Rah Mini Jingle 
 
Prudence:  I'm Prudence.  
 
Vicky: I'm Vicky,  
 
Martin: I should first tell you what's happening. So to launch the podcast, we're trying to do a kind of wild card podcast in which we're going to try and interview - I guess there's six people in total, if possible, in kind of five minute intervals. So when Tim knocks on the door, next, one of you will swap out with somebody else. And then if you're still here, then you'll come back at the end to complete your 10 minutes. And then maybe I'll be able to tell you everything that's happened since us talking here, because I have no idea what's going to happen. I had a quick glimpse at the list. And I also don't know anyone who's coming and I realised nobody knows who I am. So I should quickly say that, my name is Martin, I'm the Poetry Projects manager at Manchester Met, which means my biggest project is the poetry Library, which we're building. Can you tell me a bit about yourself and why you’re here today? 
 
Prudence:  So, I am actually, I'm a PhD student at the University of Manchester. I studied atmospheric sciences. So I look at climate change and stuff like that. Yeah, that’s me. 
 
Martin: Cool. 
 
Vicky: And I work at the University of Manchester doing data analysis with the research team. It sounds pretty boring, but it's actually, it's actually pretty decent. Yeah, it’s a, it's pretty cool job. So - 
 
Martin: It feels like what you do is miles away from what I do in some ways, I think sometimes scientists and data analysis humanities are kind of different things that, do you think? 
 
Vicky: Well, I did both of my degrees here in literature and literature and critical theory, my Master’s here. 
 
Martin: Okay, so talking of the theme unpredictability. How did, did you see yourself doing what you're doing now? Or how did that come about? 
 
Vicky: So I, I've always had an interest in technical stuff, in computers. I do a little bit of programming and I'm not very maths-heavy but, It was kind of, I did a research internship at this university, and then moved on into research in public sector, private sector. And data analysis has kind of emerged out of that. But the critical side and the kind of literary side of why I do, what I did in my degree is massively important to, like data analysis, because it's the, it's the why behind all the numbers. And that's one of the reasons why, well I kind of work so well in the jobs that I do, because it's not just some numbers, it's the why is this outlier here? And what's going on there? Like I can kind of work with all that information in a slightly different way because I can read all that material and just read loads of studies about why that's there. So it kind of works hand in hand actually they’re not too, they’re not as disparate as people think. So - 
 
Martin: What about you? Did you always know what you were going to do? Or is your PhD going as you thought it would? 
 
Prudence: It's had its ups and downs and its peaks and troughs, but actually something I've got really into and something I really enjoy is outreach side of things. I do love my research and, you know, climate change is something I'm passionate about all my life. So, the fact I'm studying climate change now in a research environment is, really cool but I love going to like women in STEM days and talking to like, high school girls about that. And I would love to keep doing that after the PhD. You know, people think PhDs mean, I'm just going to go off and be a postdoc, and then be a professor and just be an academic forever but I'd much rather go out and do that kind of thing. And I wasn't expecting that to come out of my PhD, but it's been brilliant to be able to do that kind of stuff. 
 
Martin: Yeah, I should, that sort of happened to me as well, like I'm project managing now, but that, it's not what I saw myself doing when I was doing the PhD. (Alarm beeping) But I think it sort of happens because you find the bit you enjoy – right, the alarm’s going off. I can say goodbye to you if that's okay. I'm pretty sure. Maybe come back at the end in about half an hour? 
 
Vicky: Yeah. I’ll come back at the end. 
 
Martin: Brilliant and I’ll tell you everything that’s happened in between. Okay. 
 
Vicky: Thank you. 
 
Martin: Brilliant. See you then! So we've got the next person coming in now. So we'll quickly introduce ourselves, the people who are already here, my name’s Martin and I'm staying put in this podcast while people change around me, which is getting to be quite interesting. 
 
Prudence: I'm Prudence and I'm a PhD student at the University of Manchester. 
 
Joe: And I'm Joe. I'm a new resident of Manchester well, four years, and I'm also a Peterloo ambassador. So yeah, I'm learning all about that. So excited about that. 
 
Martin: Fantastic. Do you want to, tell us a bit more about that actually, the Peterloo project, because I don't know if everyone will know about it. 
 
Joe: Yeah, it's, it's amazing. It's the 200-year bicentenary. And when I first moved here, I volunteered with the Friends of Angel Meadows. And then I moved to the Central Library to do research in the Archive Plus, and then I heard about the Peterloo story, and I didn't know anything about it, somehow, and I can't remember how, I just got involved at the right time at the beginning of the ambassador's programme. So the the bicentenary is the 16th of August. And yeah, they're having a big unveiling of a wonderful monument outside of the Central Convention Centre,  
 
Martin: G mex  
 
Joe: G mex. 
 
Martin: Yeah.  
 
Joe: On the edge of the location of the Peterloo massacre.  
 
Martin: Yeah. Do you know about it, do you know? 
 
Prudence: No, I don’t. Go ahead, educate me, please.  
 
Joe: I will. So 200 years ago, people gathered from all over Greater Manchester and beyond, to come and hear Henry Hunt come and talk about improved conditions for the working class, the weavers and the spinners, and there was 60,000 people that came. And this was just after the French Revolution. And so there were there were a small number of magistrates there that were kind of overseeing it because Manchester didn't have a magistrate and they were very nervous about a riot forming. But in fact, this is a very peaceful protest and families came with their children and dressed in their Sunday best. And they were told by Henry Hunt to, sort of make it a peaceful protest. As it started, the cavalry came in, and they started slashing at the people in the masses. And there were 18 people killed, including one two-year-old child. And there's been a lot of research on the story. A lot of it being done by Professor Robert Poole. He's done some wonderful work. Yeah. So we're part of the sort of movement to tell everybody about this.  
 
Prudence: Well, thank you for telling me. And I mean, it's awful, but it's 
 
Joe: Yeah.  
 
Prudence: worth knowing.  
 
Joe: Yes it changed the history of politics Actually,  
 
Prudence: Yeah.  
 
Joe: after that, so yeah. 

Martin: It's a, yeah, it's a huge thing. I learned about it at A level. But unless you've done history, I don't think it's something people would have necessarily learnt about and I know we had a recent conversation with friends about who, (alarm beeping) I was going to bring this into your work as, just as you need to leave. That's great because I was thinking how much how much climate  
 
Prudence: If you do it really quickly I can wriggle away. 
 
Martin: How much climate change activist’s, kind of thinking how, what, what are the kind of contemporary, like equivalents, I was thinking of, what’s the recent one extinction rebellion?  
 
Prudence: Yeah, extinction rebellion, were trying to take that radical approach, you know, I guess that even groups like PETA have become infamous for, that are trying to, you know, block, block traffic and they got naked in Parliament and all that kind of thing, because you can calmly talk about climate change all you like as a scientist, I'm calm and I'm quiet and I'm, well behaved often when I talk about it, but it's scary and it's frightening and people don't pay attention unless you kick up the first sometimes. 
 
Martin: That feels like an unpleasant note to end on. 
 
Prudence: (Laughter) Thank you for having me. 
 
Martin: Thanks for coming. Okay, I’m going to keep repeating myself to explain what's going on. But effectively, you're doing a kind of podcast relay. And now I’ve sort of stopped the conversation, but maybe you'd like to introduce yourself. 
 
Ian: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. My name's Ian Dyer. I come from Wigan, and I'm a volunteer with the LGBT foundation over here at Manchester. In fact, I’ve just been working over at the Central Library today in the archives, also their representative on the Wigan pride and my hobbies include walking, church going and reading, travel and studying. I'm just on the last lap hobby well with my university degree in social sciences. 
 
Martin: Fantastic. Thank you. So you do archive, you were in the archives today. Is that right?  
 
Ian: That’s right yes. Yeah. Well, what it is, we cover various areas of the previously lesbian and gay foundation. Now the LGBT Foundation. Their archives on various subject areas, including HIV AIDS, sexual health, the young lesbian publications, oh and, trans, quite a bit on trans. I was actually fortunate enough to agree with, with Fred and on the transform side, we tend to get quite a collection of hers, you know, for us to catalogue and basically eventually that will be available to the public, but it is available where there is, you know, for any university researchers which we have had some along, along the way. 
 
Martin: Fantastic thank you. And the theme is unpredictable. And I guess you've both worked with archives or quite a lot I have as well. And I know from my experience, obviously, I'm interested in yours is, what are the things that have most surprised you when you've worked to, have you come across any big surprises when you've worked in archives? 
 
Ian: Well, it's been a learning curve. For example I started cataloguing the a HIV/AIDS side of it and well probably near the back of my mind the different attitudes that there were along the way from the absolute outright negative to well saw somewhat more understanding nowadays. So that’s one area. There’s not been a lot of unpredictable in that sense but, it’s been, as I say, learning and finding out and sometimes potential areas to help me with my own studies as well. 
 
Martin: What about you for the anything unpredictable in the archives?  
 
Joe: Absolutely. When I when I started at Archive Plus in the Central Library, they said do you want to, do you want to research the Manchester Ship Canal, or Renold Chains, and everybody went to the ship canal and then I was the only one left and so I said, Oh, I'll do Renold Chains, not having a clue what that was. And it was actually a company in Manchester started by a young Swiss guy who came over and anyway, he set up this chain company. But the most interesting thing was that he invented the bicycle, bush roller chain, which is exactly the same today as it was when he invented it in 1880. It's incredible. And so I'm a cyclist. And so all of a sudden chains were so interesting. (Laughter) 
 
Martin: Now, I know about this only because,  
 
Joe: Really? 
 
Martin: Yeah, I did a poetry night called the other where you're paired with a stranger and you swap your poetry and read each other's work. And the work I was reading was by a fantastic poet called Steph Lonsdale. And a lot of it was based in Ordsall. And so I thought ah, I know nothing about Ordsall so I'll Google it and look up and that's where I think the chains were really manufactured. I thought it was also a lot. Or have I got that wrong? 
 
Joe: Well he was started out in Salford. Yeah, so you're very close to Ordsall. Yeah, yeah, he started in Salford and then he moved to Burnage and then the company moved to Wilmington. (Alarm beeping) 
 
Martin: Okay. 
 
Joe: So yeah, fascinating.  
 
Ian: Absolutely.  
 
Joe: And it's still going strong. The company. 
 
Martin: Yeah. Well let me check. Yeah. And the system is. Fantastic. Thank you now to find out who's coming in next. 
 
Matthew: I’m Matthew. I am a support worker in Manchester for a charity called creative support. 
 
Martin: Matthew, what's happening upstairs? We've got glimpse of the music.  
 
Matthew: There was poetry readings just before I left which were quite good. There was one about the, um, you know, the fish you get with soy sauce. 
 
Martin: Oh, yeah, the little bottles. 
 
Matthew: Yeah the little bottles for soy sauce. But they come in fish form and how this kind of thing gets discarded, it’s only got a single purpose and it gets wasted and thrown away. And then the poem is about kind of, well, there could be another purpose for the soy sauce fish, which I quite enjoyed.  
 
Martin: That was nice. I also want to know where you can get them because I’d quite like to have one. 
 
Matthew:  As in manufactured where they come from?  
 
Martin: Yeah, well no also just so I can get one my own lunch so I can reuse it rather than - Yeah, I did that  
 
Matthew: Sainsbury's I imagine, get a little pack of sushi. 
 
Martin: I guess you could use it. 
 
Matthew: Sometimes they come with the little soy sauce things, keep hold of it. 
 
Ian: It's funny you were saying by the way, Wigan pride was on the committee on Wigan pride and while we were all there are actually last week who managed to Manchester Pride conference with various representatives. It went very well.  
 
Martin: So the theme of this podcast today is the unpredictable. It's kind of been happening by itself. Did anything happen at the conference that you weren't expecting? Or? 
 
Ian: Yeah, there was. I didn't know in advance but there was a very very superb talk by Peter Tatchell. He’d been an activist for many, many years. In fact, he was actually an MP as well. He was actively campaigning for equal age of consent in conjunction with Stonewall. He was saying like, there's equality on for example, marriage which, to a certain extent, for example, inheriting pensions, which only goes back some, some way. They still obviously can’t get married in some churches like Church of England. I’m a member of of United Reformed Church over at Chorlton at Wilbraham St Ninian’s. Was it last year or the year before, we got a licence to conduct marriages. 
 
Martin: Fantastic.  
 
Matthew: Ah Great! Yeah,  
 
Martin:  That must have been a great moment.  
 
Ian: Absolutely. Yeah.  
 
Martin: Do you know how many marriages have taken place? 
 
Ian: There's not that many so far. But they'll gradually build up. I mean, certainly the United Reformed Church together with ones like the Quakers, for example, have been the leaders in conducting same sex marriage, sharing marriage and inclusiveness. 
 
Martin: Okay. And Matthew do you want to tell us about yourself? How come you've - Why are you here? I mean, 
 
Matthew: Why am I here like an existential question. 
 
Martin: Well, if you want we can go there, that's fine. 
 
Matthew: Um, yeah, I, I'm an MA graduate. I currently work as a recovery support worker in Manchester, for a charity called creative support. I predominately work with people with mental health issues, and people who have learning difficulties. And I guess my role is to encourage people to be more independent, encourage empowerment, get people who may face challenges in the day to day to get out there more or pursue things that might not have previously thought was available to them. So that's kind of that's my that's my day job. 
 
Ian: That's fantastic. Yeah, funnily enough, I went on Tuesday, which was organised by Wigan Council about autism awareness and the way that employers or organisations can make allowances. 
 
Matthew: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's been a lot of developments in this kind of awareness about mental health. And then if you go into the supermarkets, for example, now there is a lot of them, I know ASDA, they will have an hour where, maybe they turn down the music to make allowances for people who might, might be getting overwhelmed by certain things going on. 
 
Ian: Well this is it. I mean we can provide, we have a quiet space there’s also on the council an autism now champion as well, Caleb and also at the conference just yesterday to Manchester pride which hopefully they'll take it up to have a quiet space because obviously it's a much bigger event. And you know they do need a space. I mean in the foundation we do have chill out spacious as well of course, just the pride organisers need to take that firmly on board. 
 
Martin: Is that in the resource library because I know that there's the, I’m quite interested in the resource library, because my, my day job is currently setting up the Poetry Library. And so I was interested in finding out where in Manchester there was poetry, and where you might not expect to find it. And the LGBT Foundation was one of those places because there is a resource library and there's lots of poetry in it. 
 
Ian: There is yeah, there’s still some of the books, but to be honest most of the materials have actually gone across to the central library. And the reason was, it’s far better storage facilities.  
 
Martin: Okay. 
 
Ian: They've got the lobby conditions to store it. 
 
Martin: Thanks Ian. We've got our next person waiting for us outside. He's now gonna swap with you. Matthew, you stay here. 
 
Matthew: Okay, great. 
 
Martin: I don't even know what number we're on anymore. Actually.  
 
Emily: I think I'm the last because I said I would only volunteer if we didn't get enough numbers and we were one short. So (laughter) 
 
Martin: So what would have put you off? What do you think people put people off signing up? 
 
Emily: I don't know. I think I mean for me I don't like listening to my own voice.  
 
Martin: Yeah.  
 
Emily: Yeah, I think that can put people off but I think people not being able to prepare. The, the unknown topic. 
 
Matthew: Yeah, the hearing your own voice is a little bit of a surreal thing.  
 
Martin: Is this the first time you've been in a recording studio?  
 
Matthew: This is the first time I’ve been in a recording studio. But also the unknown. Because, there is loads of the post it notes. So yeah, so everyone wrote down all these topics.  
 
Martin: We haven't even got to them yet. Because there’s not been enough time. We’ve not even, I'm sitting here with a pile of post it notes which have these prompts on them. And the first one says dogs 
 
Emily: Oh, that’s mine. (Laughter)  
 
Matthew: Let’s run with that! 
 
Martin: We haven't even introduced ourselves. 
 
Emily: My name is Emily. Do you want a last name? We'll keep it cas (laughter) 
 
Martin: Do you just want to go with Emily and carry on with dogs?  
 
Emily: I mean, yeah, I guess. 
 
Matthew: It’s Emily’s subject, I think dogs is what we should talk about now. 
 
Emily: I love dogs, I really do. 
 
Martin: All dogs?   
 
Emily: Yeah. 
 
Martin: I don't, I like dogs on a dog-to-dog basis. 
 
Emily: Sure. 
 
Martin: A bit like people I think, you know? I’ve got nothing against dogs in principle. There’s nothing, you know, dog-ishness is fine, but it's kind of like, I like a dog on a - Yeah.  
 
Matthew: How do you feel about pedigree dogs because this is like an area of contention. I find where- 
 
Emily: Oh, here we go. Yeah. 
 
Matthew: This is this is dogs. This is the subject obviously plutonian dog. The original dog would be the wolf. So, and then everything sense has been bred for purpose. 
 
Emily: Yes.  
 
Matthew: Whereas now we've got to the stage where things have been bred to look in certain ways. I was in the University of Manchester’s natural history museum. And there's an array of dog skulls and you can see the wolf in the middle of, like the original dog skull, if you will. And then how all these different breeds have changed the shape of the skull so much, they might be looking at the pugs with these squashed in faces and, almost like, it's a bit cruel to make these dogs exist. 
 
Emily: It is. 
 
Matthew: What’s your opinion? 
 
Emily: I mean, I think that's terrible because pugs are very much seen as a trend, as an accessory, more than anything as a pet but it has gotten to the point now where it's really damaging to that breed. And I don't think there's enough penalty on those kinds of breeds when, when you get them from breeders and things like that. 
 
Martin: Are we talking about over breeding? 
 
Emily: Yeah so, so they're, they've been bred so much that basically like you said, the skulls have changed and their noses are too, like, shallow so that they can't breathe properly and especially if they’re like quite chubby there is a, a risk that they’ll – this has gone really like, dark - there's a risk that they'll, they’ll like choke and stuff. So that's, that's really grim because we're not letting dogs be dogs. 
 
Matthew: It’s horrible. And right, it might be a lie. But it's just something, when you said dogs, so this is me - I thought of it, I don’t know why, it just came to my memory. But my cousin’s next-door neighbours, when I was young, they had pugs. And my cousin alleged because of the defect of the shape of the skull, that if they get to a certain age their eyes could pop out, which is a horrible thought. But also it just, 
 
Emily: Yeah.  
 
Matthew: It's kind of considered, the point you were saying about how the shape of the skull can cause all these problems. 
 
Emily: Yeah, yeah. 
 
Martin: I think the thing I'm wondering though is, there's this kind of origin story of the wolf being the original dog. But is that really true? Are the wolves we have these I mean, the evolution happens as well. Right, as well as I know that kind of, you know, breeding dogs to your purpose kind of speeds up and means you sort of manipulate the evolutionary process. But do you have any idea? Where wolves a million years ago, do they look like the wolves now? Has that remained a constant or -?  
 
Emily: I have no idea 
 
Matthew: I have no idea. 
 
Martin: I don’t know either. 
 
Matthew: I imagine you'll have like a European Wolf and then an American wolf. And they'll be somewhat different in the same way like, 
 
Martin: Yeah, and if you go further back, they actually come from like dolphins or something like that. No, wait, hold on. (laugheter)Dolphins come from wolves? Do they have a common ancestor?  
 
Matthew: I mean, they call orcas like wolves of the sea.  
 
Martin: (laughter) Maybe that’s what I was thinking of. 
 
Matthew: I know what you mean, though. That is the thing, then obviously if you go far enough back then a wolf will not be wolf anymore. 
 
Martin: Yeah, 
 
Martin: It will be some other kind of mammal predator from 
 
Emily and Martin: Yeah, 
 
Emily: Maybe we, we share a common- 
 
Martin: But we must do right. 
 
Emily: -species. 
 
Martin: Yeah, at some point. 
 
Matthew: With the wolf. 
 
Martin: I feel like we've gone into territory that, all of us, is pure speculation.  
 
Matthew: Yeah. (Alarm beeping)  
 
Martin: Oh and the time’s up. (Laughter) 
 
Emily: Wow. 
 
Matthew: Some food for thought there. 
 
Martin: Yes, thank you for leaving us with that. Thanks very much.  
 
Matthew: Thanks for having me. This was fun. 
 
Emily: That got real dark, real fast. 
 
Martin: It got really dark, very quickly. Okay so you were our first person on weren’t you? 
 
Vicky: Yeah.  
 
Martin: And so, the first person to leave and first person to come back. So you're my kind of benchmark for what's happened in the intervening time. We've covered: wolves and pugs, Wigan Pride, Peterloo massacre, climate change, data analysis. I feel like I'm missing something. I don't know anymore, that's as far as I've got. Is that right? You don’t know you weren’t even here. Should we pick another random topic just end this on? Should we go with Landlords or should we go with a Metrolink. Yes, that's do Metrolink, was this yours? 
 
Vicky: It wasn't mine, but I really, really passionately hate the Metrolink. And I used to work for TFGM as well so I should support it but I just hate it. It's just crowded, its packed, people are rude. People don't even stand up and let people with broken legs sit down. It's just you know, so that's why the Metrolink’s in there because it's like, that’s something Vicky can rant about for hours and hours and hours. (Laughter) Absolutely can't stand the Metrolink. So sorry if anyone likes the Metrolink but, 
 
Martin: I like it from the outside. So I when I first moved to Manchester, which is like over 10 years ago now I remember coming in and as the first kind of UK city I had been in with a tram I think, for me this I guess is maybe, maybe because my parents are German. So, you've got strong links there, but it kind of made the city feel, kind of European compared to the UK cities, like the tram felt to me like it was something. So that's from the outside, but you're right, when I ended up commuting on it, my experience hasn’t been great. It's good. When I take the kids on it when nobody else is on. Fantastic, it's really nice. 
 
Vicky: It looks European feels European especially the new ones, but it doesn't act European (laughter) it’s late and it just doesn't work. And I, when I was getting the tram home from work at least once a week, I had to walk home and it took me two hours to get home because the trams just weren't 
 
Martin: The trams were too full?  
 
Vicky: Yeah, well, not even full. Like I can’t get on a full tram because I don't like them. But they would stop – Cornbrook is the bottleneck - and when a signal fails near Cornbrook, that's it. Yeah. So I had to walk from Cornbrook. It was just like, just, it's just a nightmare but, 
 
Martin: That isn't good. What's your preferred mode of transport then? 
 
Emily: Well, I use the Metrolink every day. Yeah, I mean, I could walk, it is walkable for me to get back to where I live. 
 
Martin: I’d still use the Metrolink despite everything we’ve heard. 
 
Emily: The thing is I don't like walking late at night and on my own and in the winter, I have to walk by the canal. So over that I do use the tram however when it comes to summer, I'll start walking. Definitely. 
 
Martin: Because, 

Emily: So much less grief, yeah.  
 
Martin: Yeah, I used the bus. And I like the bus. I do most of my writing on the bus because that's the only time I get these days really. So I'm quite happy for it to get stuck in traffic. And I don't really think I've ever not been able to get a seat which I think personally there's a big difference there isn't there. And once you're kind of, like okay I've got a seat and I don't mind how long this takes because actually I quite enjoy it so I can read and write. This is what changes things for you. Not that it doesn't get pretty weird on the bus sometimes (laughter). Especially on the top deck it's kind of you know, anything can happen there. But yeah, no I like the bus. 
 
Vicky: Yeah, I think my favourite is the - well it's not my favourite I don't like public transport I'd rather walk but if I had to pick it would be the bus for the exact same reasons like, I've got through two books since I've been getting the bus. I don't have to get the Metrolink anymore, it's been an absolute blessing. It just, I can sit down every morning. And,  
 
Martin: Even if I could drive I probably wouldn't. 
 
Emily: Yeah,  
 
Martin: Because I'm losing reading time.  
 
Vicky: Yeah, yeah, that’s the same thought I had. 
 
Martin: And also the kind of rhythm as well. Sometimes the bus is late, you know, it's kind of, I don’t know, maybe good to accept that. (Laughter) Gotta learn to, sort of, get used to the bus. It’s a, sort of, I don’t know, a good healthy reminder that things are slightly out of your control. The Metrolink feels like it's that but much more. 
 
Vicky: It’s out of control in a bad way, like you know it got taken over by Keolis/Amey and the management of it. And ever since then it's just been downhill, and it’s a real shame because it was a good, it was a good system at one point and now I just think it's everything that's wrong with the world. It's just not for me the Metrolink and once again I'm sorry for anyone who loves it or uses it.  
 
Martin: I feel like I both do and don't want to stop there. (Laughter) From a really dark place with dogs to a dark place with the Metrolink, I think yeah, I think I'm going to stop there.  That is a natural pause, thank you. (Alarm beeping) Oh and the alarm’s gone off, perfect. Thanks very much. 
 
Emily: Thank you.  
 
Vicky: Thank you. 
 
RAH! Mini Jingle
 
Martin: Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed the podcast. Don't forget to follow us on Twitter for future podcast updates. You can find us on @mmu_RAH. For more information on all the research and events we discussed in this episode, please go to the Rah website for full links. And again, thank you for listening. 

RAH! Closing Jingle
 
Martin: This episode of the RAH! podcast was produced by Lucy Simpson, edited by Tim Jackman, presented by me, Martin Kratz and mixed by Julian Holloway.